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Strategies for Growth and Sustainability with Drs. Nate Jeal and BT Nguyen

Published on: Apr 15, 2024
By: Brought to you by Dr. Reza Ardalan
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by Dr. Reza Ardalan, Dental Slang Podcast

Tune in to the latest episode of the Dental Slang Podcast featuring Drs. Nate Jeal and BT Nguyen from Fast Grow Dental, where they discuss strategies to amplify dental practice success.
Discover the transformative power of coaching and continuous education as they unveil their online membership platform,, which offers exclusive access to monthly webinars, expert-led courses, and invaluable resources tailored to elevate your practice's conversion rates and overall performance.

Unlock the key to working smarter, not harder, and discover the roadmap to creating your D.R.E.A.M. practice through dynamic leadership, real profits, expert conversion, achievable goals, and measurable marketing strategies. Learn to optimize your time, streamline processes, and achieve sustainable growth without succumbing to burnout.

Gain invaluable insights into seeking solutions, embracing new ideas, and refining practice management strategies for unparalleled success. Don't miss out on their unwavering support and commitment to empowering dental professionals worldwide. After listening to the podcast, you can engage with them through webinars on and find them on social media @drnatejeal and @dr.baotran for more information on how to create long-term sustainable growth in your practice.

Listen to the full podcast on, or read the recap below.


For those unable to listen to the podcast, explore the full transcript capturing the valuable insights shared by Drs. Nate Jeal and BT Nguyen. Delve into their discussion on practice conversion, patient communication, and management strategies, and discover actionable tips for success to work smarter, not harder, in your practice.

Dr. Ardalan: Thank you for joining us today! First, I want the audience to know that every time I interact with both of you, whether it's during a meeting or any other setting, within five minutes, I find myself eagerly absorbing every bit of information I can glean for my private practice. I'm genuinely thrilled for the listeners to gain insight into the wealth of expertise you possess. Beyond your impressive clinical skills, you've ventured into coaching clinicians on transforming patient treatment plans into actionable strategies for substantial revenue. My first question is, what inspired both of you to establish a business in this particular field?

Dr. Jeal: I must say, this journey truly stemmed from necessity. Allow me to share a bit of background – BT and I were dental school classmates, and for the initial three years of our formal education, we actually paid little attention to each other. It wasn't until the last year of dental school that we forged a friendship, and since then, it has evolved into much more. Coming out of dental school, our plan was to purchase dental practices, and indeed, we did. Within two years, we acquired five dental practices, navigating this phase with the admission that we knew very little at the outset.

Admittedly, we made every mistake imaginable, but there is a certain beauty in learning from mistakes and persisting through challenges. We took note of our missteps, consciously avoiding duplication, and set out to acquire the knowledge we lacked on day one. It was out of sheer necessity that we found ourselves in a position where responsibilities abounded. With mouths to feed, associates, team members, patients, landlords expecting rent, and banks seeking repayment, the pressure was on.

This responsibility forced us to look beyond the dental industry, recognizing that while dentistry excelled in providing clinical and continuing education, mastering the business side required insights from outside the field. Thus, out of necessity, we sought mentors and knowledge beyond dentistry. What we discovered is that growing practices necessitates an understanding of why people make purchases. This realization propelled us to delve deep into marketing, conversion, and the psychology of buying decisions.

Dr. Nguyen: I'd like to emphasize an additional necessity that wasn't mentioned – the aspect of self-care for business owners. It's crucial to highlight that in the midst of those challenging years, we were grinding so hard that we often neglected ourselves, both in our roles as life partners and business collaborators. Our own health and mental well-being took a back seat. Even as the responsibilities were listed, the reality is that, as business owners, we sometimes put ourselves at the bottom of the priority list. Recognizing the necessity of adopting a business mindset that includes self-care is paramount. As any business owner knows, if you can't take care of yourself, it becomes challenging to effectively manage anything else. So, in addition to the mentioned responsibilities, acknowledging the importance of self-care in the business context is a vital necessity.

Dr. Jeal: It's such a great point, particularly in the field of dentistry where the inclination to be people pleasers is quite common. We tend to diligently check off all the boxes to satisfy everyone else, often placing ourselves at the bottom of the list. There's a trap we fall into, assuming that more is always better when, in reality, sometimes more is less. It's imperative to reshape our thinking and not solely be servants to our practice and patients. While maintaining our commitment to serving them, we must also recognize the need for our practice to serve our own interests.

Entering the field of dentistry isn't about working without compensation or accumulating debt. It's only fair that we align our thoughts and aspirations to create a balance that works for everyone involved. It's about organizing our approach to ensure that the pieces fit together harmoniously and contribute to the well-being of both the practice and ourselves.

Dr. Ardalan: It's funny because anyone who has ventured into starting a practice or is a business owner can undoubtedly relate to everything you've been discussing. I vividly recall my own experience starting a practice, feeling completely clueless. When I engage with younger dentists, they express the same concerns about how to shorten the learning curve. Now, it's something others can benefit from by listening.

I'm particularly interested in delving deeper into the topic of conversion, as you briefly mentioned. In our conversations, I've found your insights on successful conversion to be incredibly powerful. Could you elaborate on that and perhaps share some key elements of a successful conversion?

Dr. Nguyen: There are various approaches to conversion nowadays, from the traditional to the modern. In our current landscape, it's crucial to shift and modernize our strategies to align with the preferences of today's more informed dental consumers. Patients are highly educated, conducting thorough research online on platforms like Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube before even setting foot in the dental office. This heightened awareness necessitates a more relevant and tailored approach.

When discussing conversion, we find that it involves a significant amount of listening but, even more importantly, asking the right questions. Rather than approaching consultations with a generic introduction, such as, "Hi, I'm Dr. Nguyen, how can I help you today?"—which often leads to patients sharing negative experiences with past dentists—controlling the conversation by asking precise questions can guide patients toward better decision-making.

We've developed a formula for conversion, and credit goes to Nate for its genius. This formula enhances a doctor's ability to close more cases or convert more patients. The first component is awareness—how to create more awareness and visually demonstrate to the patient the nature of their concern. We leverage imagery, diagnostic AI, photography, and digital scanners to make patients hyper-aware of their dental issues.

The next stage is the value component, where we ask a series of seven conversion questions in a specific order. These questions help us delve deep into creating value for patients. Contrary to some consultants' perspectives that patients don't accept treatment due to a lack of perceived value, we believe that, with the right questions, we can uncover that many patients do value dentistry. However, a missing piece is often the financial aspect. Therefore, the third part of our strategy is to ensure financial flexibility, making it easy for patients to accept and proceed with treatment. Applying these three stages—awareness, value, and financial flexibility—positions us to convert more cases successfully, ensuring that the right patient is not only aware of their problem but also finds it easy to proceed with the recommended treatment.

Dr. Ardalan: Yeah, I've got a ton of questions because we've talked about this a little bit before—you know, the power questions, and at first, it seems easy. When I listened to you guys and then I went back to my office, I think, in a roundabout way, sometimes I asked a few of the questions, but it wasn't systematic. It wasn't always in the right order or using images so patients could actually see the problem. Tell me more about how you create value and awareness for patients.

Dr. Jeal: Yeah, I think it's important to follow the system. BT talked about what we call the conversion equation. It has three variables: awareness, value, and financial flexibility. So, let's talk then about how we create awareness. She talked about using imagery, yes, but why do we use imagery to create awareness? There's a reason why it's a prerequisite. There's a reason why it comes as the first variable in the equation. It's a prerequisite because no one can have value, and your discussion of finance is meaningless if someone hasn't acknowledged they have a problem. So, the awareness, what it really means is, your patient must acknowledge that the problem exists because no one pays to solve a problem that they don't know about unless they really just love you. And for me, that's not a business strategy. I like law.

We don't want to rely on pure personal affinity. We want to encourage and guide our patients to acknowledge the problem exists. Step one, step two, then value. Value really has two components, right? If your patient acknowledges a problem exists, we need to understand, is it a problem they are willing to live with or not? Because if they're willing to live with it, then they don't have value, right? You know, I see that crack in my tooth, but I don't care. Well, then they're not buying a crown. Pretty simple, right? So, if we can get them to acknowledge a problem exists and then use our question-based approach, or a question-based approach, I should say, to uncover value not created, we will uncover the value again through questions. Is it a problem that they are willing to live with? It's really a binary response. Yes, it is, or no, it's not. And then, do they acknowledge you as a solution provider? When it comes to value, those two things really have to be true. And yes, we have a number of conversion questions or power questions. I like to call them conversion questions because to me, it makes sense that we're using them as a protocol for guiding. But if we can get the awareness out of the way, so get our patient or help them to articulate that the problem exists, if we can use our questions to uncover the value that they either have or they do not have, now we can position our offer, our financial options to people who we know care about accessing the solution.

Dr. Reza: I think it’s great because it's actually a systemized approach. And just hearing you talk about it, it's so clear and concise. Now, one of the things that I'll talk about is, I'm a firm believer, and I say this to everybody, I'm a firm believer in coaching. And one of the reasons that I like it is because I think you just get repeated exposure to the information.

Now, I think if I'm not mistaken, you guys are in the process of starting an online membership platform that's going to launch soon. Can you give some details to our listeners about how they might participate?

Dr. Jeal: When we talk about conversion questions, a lot of times we'll spread that out over 14 hours, right? We'll do like a weekend course just on that. So, no, I don't think that anyone can glean everything they need from a single conversation, which is a big part of the reason why we put together our online education website. We came up with a program we call Dental Conversion Dynamics, and it encompasses just about everything that you need to know, at least at a starter level, to really kick your conversion efforts into high gear.

We have a 26-module course that delves into these ideas around prescriptive sales, called Dental Conversion Dynamics. We've got another course that is more appropriate for the team, giving the dental team an understanding of roles and scripting so that everyone knows their lines in the practice. We view dentistry as, at least in part, performance art. So having everyone in control of their own lines and their own role is really important, and we include that as part of the overall program. Part of the program also includes our $100,000 Day Course, which is something that now, I think, north of 600 dentists have taken this program and executed their own six-figure, in some cases, multiple six-figure day inside their practices, which needless to say is energizing.

There’s a bunch of content. Not only that, we host monthly webinars. Every month, we add a new lesson that’s easy to consume but it's important. And it's really uncanny how much info can be packed into an hour sometimes.

Dr. Nguyen: You know, as you just said earlier, is that you can hear it. And we all think we do it in practice until you hear it again. You're like, ooh, I did seven of those, but I'm missing the third or the eighth, ninth, tenth. But there's always something to be learned. And I think this is the power of having everything digitally recorded. You can always go back. And if it's a concept or if it's a lesson that you enjoy, you can replay it. And now, knowing that the market has shifted a little bit with HR and staff and all that, as soon as you onboard a new team member, I think one of the biggest lessons is they need to learn about business like ASAP. They've gone to school to learn about the clinical, but now let's have them talking to the right patients, converting the right patients, creating awareness, value, and all that with the right patients. And this is why we developed a video for ourselves in our office. And we're like, you know, we're gonna share this message because I think every office needs to learn it.

Dr. Ardalan: So I think that's awesome that you're incorporating the team because, listen, sometimes I'll go to a CE course and I come back with a particular amount of knowledge, and I'm like, this is what we're gonna do. But if everybody else isn't on board, that doesn't matter. So the fact that you have modules for them.

Now, having heard the two of you speak, and I'll just give this, I feel like you complement each other so well throughout your presentation. Like, I know a lot of our listeners may not be able to, even just watching our interaction here, it's amazing how you just like bounce off each other. When you guys present different styles, but both of you complement each other so well, what roles do each of you kind of take based on your individual expertise?

Dr. Nguyen: Yeah, and you know what, it's totally true, but this is obviously behind the scenes. Like, it's not perfect. The social media, right, it's all rehearsed. So I could say that when we're on stage, we're well-rehearsed, but in terms of preparing for a lecture, let's say, or a course, I'm someone that wants to be overly prepared. I do like my slides, I do like to know what slides are coming up well in advance. So I'm not a wing-it type of person. Nate is so good at just showing up five minutes before and be like, okay, go. He just knows it, right? But that's how I think we work in that if I am missing something, he'll fill in the gaps, or if he's missing something, I can fill in the gaps. But the way that I present, I'm more of like a conversationalist. I like to really read the audience. If they're not nodding, I'm like, oh, what did I do? But Nate is not fazed at all by that. He's just like point blank, I can teach you, and I'm just going to make sure you understand this concept. So I think that's where we differ a little bit. I'm always trying to say, do you guys agree? Or are we getting the feedback? But Nate is pretty much okay with just like, I'm gonna lecture and I just know this stuff, right?

Dr. Jeal: I would say yes. BT is an opener, and I'm a bit of a closer. We blend some of these elements, and I think because we have a relationship of trust, I don't mind if she finishes my sentences and vice versa because I forget something once in a while. But when she's listening, and as I'm listening to when she's talking, sometimes we miss something, and so we can fill in what the other person missed. And I think that that's one of the greatest attributes of our ability to work together is understanding, first of all, what our content is. Because we understand that on a fundamental level, we can step in and fill in voids.

Dr. Ardalan: I love the fact that you guys complement each other. Even at the beginning of this podcast, Nate, you were talking about these great points, and then BT was like, “but wait, you forgot the most important part of it,” and you're like, “yeah, that's a good point.”

I wanna switch gears just a little bit because this is something that's happening in my field. So, selfishly, I kind of want your take on this, but I think our listeners will as well. In this era of ever-increasing DSOs, these bigger corporate groups, the two of you took a different approach and became multi-practice owners. We talked about that at the beginning, and you did that right from the start, which is really unheard of. But why did you decide to go that multi-practice route instead of immediately joining or selling to one of these corporate DSO-type groups?

Dr. Jeal: Yeah, I mean, I think there are several reasons for that. Initially, when we got into multi-practice ownership, DSOs weren't even on our radar. We were inspired by others who were ahead of us and thought we could do the same. It turned out we could, if we tightened our belts and pushed through the challenges. So, why did we choose this path? We felt we had the capacity and something valuable to offer, and we wanted to challenge ourselves. We're more driven by accomplishments than seeking accolades. If we can do something, we want to do it. That's our mindset. Developing solid business operating systems became essential out of necessity, making things easier for us now. We aim to create a company that can manage itself, focusing on developing our team culturally and skill-wise. We don't want just a job; we want a business that creates asset value and offers freedom and opportunities. When it comes to DSOs, we've sold practices to associates and unknown dentists and been pursued by DSOs. However, we see limitations in the DSO market, as they end up owning your practice, limiting future prospects.

Dr. Ardalan: Yeah. Right?

Dr. Jeal: You know, that's one perspective, and there are other viewpoints as well. I have a long list of doctors I know who've sold and regretted it, while others are very happy. So, I'm not making sweeping statements here, but rather sharing my impression that in the DSO world, the future is different from when you're independent because now you're dealing with Wall Street money, or rather, Wall Street money is dealing with you. And they don't lose. 

I recently read the earnings report for a major DSO, which might not be common for dentists, but I did. What stood out to me was that they mentioned paying 34% less for practices in 2023 compared to 2022. That's good for them but not for dentists, right?

Another point was their reference to a 5% year-over-year growth in same-store sales. However, in a dental practice, 5% growth isn't significant because of fee increases and high inflation rates. Realistically, at best, you're just maintaining your position.

While they presented a certain image, it raises questions about why dentists would sell to DSOs right now. Again, I don't want this to be a blanket statement because I know there are some good groups out there, and many dentists make decisions for personal reasons. But if we're considering such a move, it's not just a lateral shift. There are many factors to consider, and your dental practice is an asset with real value. Sometimes, that value is maximized when you're in control.

Dr. Nguyen: Yes, I think that's it.

The sense of freedom, knowing what you're doing, and being in control is crucial. When you ask why people are selling to DSOs, I believe it's because, as you mentioned, many of us were never trained in business during dental school. Without that business training, combined with the downward pressure from staff, the pandemic, and insurance issues, it can feel overwhelming. Especially for women with children at home who are dealing with additional challenges. Sometimes, it seems easier to throw in the towel and say, "I give up." But there is a better way. I see a growing trend of dentists wanting to learn more about business and gaining that training to regain control and freedom. It's a slow shift, but I do see it happening.

Dr. Ardalan: BT, I appreciate your insight on this. It's true, many people have become increasingly frustrated in recent years due to mounting pressures. You're right, there's a choice: either let a specific group handle it or seek guidance to learn how to manage it yourself. What I admire about your programs is how they empower your team. This empowerment is evident in multi-practice offices as well. I have no doubt that if I visited any of your offices, the doctors and associates would feel empowered. Some may even feel empowered enough to eventually buy the practice themselves, recognizing the value in it. It's interesting how this value creation parallels the journey you've taken. I understand that some people may reach a point where they just don't want to deal with it anymore. Your approach makes sense, and considering your personalities, it's clear you were determined to figure it out without throwing in the towel. It's great that there's now an avenue for others to learn from your experience as well.

Nate, during my research, I came across something surprising—I didn't realize you had a regular newsletter. I feel bad for not knowing about it earlier. Could you please share with me and everyone else the objectives, target audience, the type of advice included, and how we can subscribe to it?

Dr. Jeal: Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. It's actually something I really enjoy. Surprisingly, many people don't know that I spend as much, if not more, time writing than I do practicing dentistry. It's true. I aim to send out a newsletter at least once a week, sometimes twice. My goal is to both inform and inspire my colleagues, particularly practice owners or those aspiring to be one. I want them to realize that dentistry offers more than just routine procedures until retirement. There's a whole world out there to explore. Your dental license is like a springboard—you can pursue various specialties like ortho, implants, surgery, and more. The only limitations are the ones we impose on ourselves. So, in my newsletter, I share insights on marketing and conversion strategies, aiming to challenge the traditional mindset of "hang your shingle and they will come."

Nowadays, it's more like, "hang your shingle, but they won't come unless you've got your reviews, website, social media—all congruent. You spend some money on ads, have your mailer, all these things." The old way of doing things just doesn't cut it anymore, at least not here in North America. It might in other places, but not here. So, we have to approach things differently. My aim with the thoughts I put on paper and share with my list is to offer new ideas, share a different perspective, and encourage dialogue. For those who don't have it, we can probably share a link. That would be the best way. So, please, if you can tolerate the musings of one semi-talented dentist, I'd love to include you on the list.

Dr. Ardalan: That's great.

Now, it's interesting because I'd love to hear your perspective since you began discussing the situation in North America. We're fortunate that the Dental Slaying Podcast has a global audience, with dentists from all over the world tuning in. But could you discuss a bit about the Canadian clinician's approach to conversion, considering that both of you are based in Canada? Is there a difference compared to dentists from other countries? I hope this question isn't perceived as stereotypical, but we often hear about the "Canadian niceness" stereotype. While it's not entirely accurate, could you shed some light on how this might factor into conversion strategies in Canada compared to elsewhere?

Dr. Jeal: Yeah, I think dental consumers are skeptical, regardless of location. Google is a wonderful tool, accessible to people worldwide with smartphones. We’re not dealing with the same patient as we were 10, 15, or 20 years ago. The idea that Canadians are uniformly nice isn't entirely true. I wish it were, but it isn't. Behavioral psychology and the neuroscience behind decision-making transcend cultures. People are motivated to relieve pain, whether physical, emotional, or financial. Recognizing this motivator allows us to listen effectively and understand their concerns. Emotional pain is often less obvious, but crucial to address. Patients often express dissatisfaction with previous dentists because they felt unheard.

I'm like, "Well, what do you mean you felt unheard?" They're like, "Well, oh, I told them I didn't really like this, and they told me it's not important, or they told me it's just cosmetic."

Dr. Nguyen: Or they went right to the whole like, "Oh, you know, your insurance doesn't cover it," though it's almost like a way to gauge your case acceptance, right? Already you're prejudging the patient that they can't afford it and they wouldn't do anything if insurance didn't cover it. So I don't think it's a Canadian or American thing. I think we're all dealing with the same types of people with the same types of funds. There's going to be tons of people in the practice who want something and there's going to be tons of people who don't want something. The magic is trying to figure out by asking the right questions and knowing really quickly who's who. So it's not a Canadian or American thing; I think it's just asking the same set of conversion questions no matter where you are, and you'll get those two types of patients: someone that cares and someone that doesn't.

Dr. Ardalan: Well, my litmus test on whether Canadians are nice is the two of you, and it's 50-50. I'm gonna say BT is the nice one, Nate, you know, no, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding.

Dr. Jeal: Oh, come on! That’s not fair.

Dr. Ardalan: What I found interesting with the two of you is that both of you work with Aurum Dental Labs in Calgary. I find it intriguing that you're applying your conversion techniques to working with a lab. Do you find that the conversion techniques you're teaching dentists are also applicable to dental companies like labs that are trying to earn business from other clinicians? Can that same information be translated across platforms?

Dr. Jeal: It really does. Yeah, absolutely. There are fundamental truths about the reasons why people make purchases. Often, as dentists, and as businesses in general, we're conditioned to approach our prospective customers from the outside in, bombarding them with what we believe are the important reasons, such as textbook facts, stats, and figures. However, that's not how people make buying decisions. People don't just buy products; they buy solutions. The advice I give to dentists is the same advice I give to companies, including Aurum. We're involved in market research, product development, and marketing, all centered around getting the messaging right and appealing to people on an emotional level, where buying decisions are made. It's about offering solutions, not just products. Whether you're a dentist or a dental company, getting the language right and positioning your product or solution in terms of the value it offers the customer is crucial. People can see through insincere pitches right away. So, yes, we do consult for the Aurum Group, a fantastic lab that works with thousands of dentists across North America. A significant part of our work with them involves developing their educational academy, the Aurum Academy. Our approach remains consistent—we're focused on improving the business aspects of dental practices, learning from each other, and enhancing the overall experience for everyone involved.

Dr. Nguyen: Yeah, Reza, I've noticed a shift in dental companies lately. There's been a reduction in the use of sales reps and less investment in big conferences and events. Dentists are well-educated now and don't need to be aggressively pitched. It's become a running joke that many people attend conferences but avoid the sales booths to avoid being bombarded. Companies have recognized this trend and are adapting by leveraging key opinion leaders, influencers, and speakers—individuals with authority and a strong personal brand who can effectively communicate about their products or services without being pushy. This approach allows companies to connect with customers in a more organic and respectful manner. The abundance of resources at our fingertips has made everyone more informed, but the key challenge for all companies, including dental offices, is understanding the buyer and meeting them where they are in the decision-making process.

Dr. Ardalan: Right

Dr. Nguyen: Sales are relevant in any business, whether it's cars, retail, or dental offices. However, for some reason, dental offices are often slow to adapt. There's a lot we can learn by studying how restaurants and retail shops operate. Dentists sometimes hesitate, thinking, "I'm in the caring profession," but they still need to manage payroll and make a profit. Dentists who embrace this quickly tend to learn and adapt better and faster, leading to greater satisfaction because they're more financially successful. Ultimately, it's about helping more people, but that's only possible if we're successful in our endeavors.

Dr. Ardalan: Yeah, I love the fact that you're highlighting this shift. While we all entered the field to care for patients, it's crucial to remember that we're also running a business. Many business practices are universal and applicable across all platforms. That's where the value lies in what you guys offer. Not only do you provide insights on clinical matters, but you also delve into the aspects we don't typically learn in dental school. Often, these topics are brushed aside during lectures, overshadowed by free food. However, once you're out in the field, you realize the importance of making your practice profitable. It's about being open to exploring beyond the conventional methods. This brings me to a question I've been wanting to ask: Besides conversion, are there any fundamental skills clinicians could gain from attending one of your fast growth practice seminars? I think it's essential to mention because the work you do is truly exceptional. So, could you elaborate on what participants can expect from these seminars and how they might benefit from them?

Dr. Nguyen: Yeah, so even though our company is called Fast Grow Dental, the assumption might be that growth means doing more and doing it quickly. However, what participants quickly realize, often within five or ten minutes, is that we actually encourage them to slow down and reassess many aspects of their practice. True growth often involves removing unnecessary elements, such as certain insurance plans, patient types that aren't a good fit, ineffective team members, or unprofitable procedures. We emphasize the value of their time throughout our coaching and mentorship sessions. Understanding the true value of their time is essential because if an activity doesn't meet that value threshold, it shouldn't be pursued. In our seminars, we guide attendees on how to create a conversion-focused practice aligned with their vision without necessarily increasing their workload. We advocate for a model of lower volume but higher profit, emphasizing that dentistry doesn't have to be a constant grind to be successful and fulfilling. Ultimately, the fundamental skill we focus on is understanding the value of one's time, determining what level of pace and workload is sustainable and conducive to long-term success without succumbing to burnout.

Dr. Jeal: I think it's about not feeling obligated to conform to anyone else's definition of success. In our workshops and coaching consultations, we introduce a concept called the Dream Practice, where "DREAM" is an acronym. The D stands for dynamic leadership, the R for real profits, the E for expert conversion, the A for achievable goals, and the M for measurable marketing. There's a deliberate order to these elements. You can't achieve your goals in practice if you're not embodying dynamic leadership and fostering a strong culture among your team. Likewise, you can't generate profits without mastering expert conversion. It's a holistic approach.

What we often find is that many dentists are simply busy for the sake of being busy. We encourage them to slow down and create space for success to unfold. Running around in a frenzy all day leaves little room for strategic thinking and planning. Decision fatigue sets in, and it becomes challenging to envision the next steps. It's like being a cog in a machine, exhausting and ultimately unsustainable. While some may opt for this frantic pace until retirement, we're here to advocate for a more balanced and sustainable approach.

Dr. Ardalan: I love that we circled back to the importance of self-care and avoiding burnout. It's a crucial topic that often gets overlooked. I was taking notes throughout our conversation because there were so many valuable insights. I particularly resonate with the concept of understanding the value of your time. When you're young and driven, it's easy to get caught up in the hustle without considering the sustainability of your approach. The premise of your philosophy, focusing on fast growth without simply working faster, but rather working smarter, really resonates with me. For those interested in learning more from you, are there specific upcoming events or workshops where they can catch you in action?

Dr. Jeal: Yeah, we host a webinar every single month. Sometimes people attend just one webinar, while others join our membership program for access to all of them. We also share information on Instagram a couple of times a week, which is probably the easiest way to reach us. Our website is, but if you want to see what we're discussing and learn how to get in touch, we respond to DMs on Instagram. You can find me us at @drnatejeal and @dr.baotran.

Dr. Nguyen: For us, we love sharing this message. However, as you know, online consumption often provides just bits and pearls of information. What we truly aim for is to invite doctors to engage with us one-on-one because we also offer group coaching sessions. Many doctors convene monthly for 75 minutes, focusing on mastering one pearl of wisdom. Today, even in this podcast, we've covered around 30 pearls. Sometimes, it's about honing in on one key concept because Nate and I emphasize the importance of mastering one thing before moving on to the next. I've mentioned on the podcast that when investors start working with us, within the first month or two, they often see multiples of what they've invested with us. This is because it's about valuing your time and recognizing areas where you can cut back on tasks that aren't necessary. By eliminating these tasks, you create the time and space needed to grow intentionally.

Dr. Jeal: Well, that's a valid point. Let me reiterate it to ensure everyone grasps it. In our most recent program launched just a couple of months ago, we've had doctors who, in their first month, recouped six times their program investment. It's exciting stuff, isn't it? Dentistry can indeed be enjoyable. We often encounter negativity, which is why I sometimes avoid Facebook groups. I'm not inherently negative, and I prefer not to engage in it. Dentistry serves as a springboard; you have the freedom to pursue what you desire. While I don't have all the answers, I believe in seeking solutions when needed, as I'm sure you do, Reza. I encourage anyone listening to do the same. If you lack answers, someone else likely has them. Whether it's us or not is beside the point; the key is finding solutions. We needn't adhere to the old way of doing things; there's an opportunity to carve out a new path. People are innovating, and we strive to learn from them whenever possible. If anything we've discussed today has sparked an idea in you, please feel free to reach out. We're here and accessible.

Dr. Ardalan: This content is amazing. As someone who follows both of you, I can wholeheartedly attest to the continuous stream of knowledge you provide. It's never a sales pitch; it's simply sharing what you're doing and offering a path to success. Whether one chooses to follow it or not is up to them. For those seeking more information, it's readily available. I highly recommend everyone to follow you both.


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