by Dr. Reza Ardalan, Dental Slang Podcast
Dive into the world of The Aurum Group with CEO Mark Maier as he shares the journey of Aurum's commitment to education, innovation, and exceptional service.
Mark Maier, a seasoned professional with a diverse background in investment banking, money management, and venture capital, uncovers the story behind Aurum's success. With a wealth of international experience and academic accomplishments, Mark brings a unique perspective to Aurum's evolution and vision.
In this podcast, explore Aurum's transformation from the groundwork of education to pioneering advancements in digital technology and orthodontics. Discover why Aurum stands as the premier dental solutions company, empowering dentists, reshaping education through the Aurum Academy, and embracing cutting-edge technologies to enhance patient care.
Key highlights include:
Unveiling Aurum's foundation built on education and innovation at the forefront of dentistry.
The significance of adapting to new technology, fostering educational partnerships, and mastering diverse aspects of dentistry as a "Super GP."
Insights into Aurum's global perspective and its impact on innovation and service delivery.
Delving into the evolving landscape of dentistry towards functional aesthetics, wellness culture, and patient-centric care.
Understanding Aurum's focus on leveraging digital technology for predictable outcomes and enhanced patient experiences.
Exploring Aurum's commitment to education through initiatives like the Aurum Academy, empowering practitioners with the latest advancements.
Aurum's expertise in orthodontics and strategic partnerships positioning them as industry leaders in orthodontic innovation.
Emphasizing Aurum's strategic business acumen, market understanding, and adapting to emerging trends to drive growth and excellence.
Join us as we uncover the exciting journey of Aurum's transformation and its pivotal role in shaping the future of dentistry. Stay tuned to learn more about the innovative directions ahead for Aurum and the dynamic opportunities in the dental industry.
For more information on The Aurum Group, please visit: https://www.aurumgroup.com
Listen to the full podcast on DentalSlang.com, or read the recap below.
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For those who would rather read than listen, explore the full transcript capturing the valuable insights shared by Mark Maier.
Dr. Ardalan: Mark, thank you so much for being on the podcast today, buddy.
Maier: Thanks for having me, happy to be here.
Dr. Ardalan: And it's great that even though we're looking at each other, you're in Canada, I'm in Florida. I think we're both finally experiencing some nice warm weather, but I get it year around, you don't always get it.
Maier: No, no, we get the minus 40 thing going here sometimes, but today's stunning and beautiful.
Dr. Ardalan: Yeah, if it drops below 70 in Florida, that's winter for us.
Mark, I want to start this conversation off by going backwards to the beginning. Your father came to Canada as a young immigrant and started a business that ended up becoming Aurum, correct? Tell us about that journey—how it unfolded and whether your father was always the type to seek out his own business opportunities.
Maier: Yeah, I think so. He had what they call wanderlust. I think that 60s generation, maybe late 50s too, wanted to get out of Europe and see what was going on in North America. He was 19 years old, he had just finished his dental technology, dental technician training, and he had dreams of California. I don't know the full story—if it was the Vietnam War or they weren't taking Germans or whatever it was—but he ended up in Calgary of all places. I think he showed up here in November, and it was minus something horrible. He was working for another German guy, and at the time, it was '61 or '62, they had just figured out the whole PFM thing. They had dialed in the coefficients of expansion with whatever alloys they were using and the ceramics, so this was sort of the new modern thing, and everybody was interested in it.
When he got here, of course, Calgary was on the map—not only as a coal place, but a place with a lot of oil and gas. It was a bit of a boom town, and there was population growth, a lot of stories around the new frontier. He met my mom here, and he never made it to California. The guy he ended up working for said, "Hey, you buy the business. I’m going to California." In 1971, he renamed the business. He was very entrepreneurial. He wanted to be successful, and he viewed that as embracing, I think the time for him was the technology was new, so he knew technology was important, and he knew education was important. I think he realized if he wanted to grow and be successful, he had to be on the leading edge of education and technology.
Dr. Ardalan: Yeah, I was just about to say, it seemed like even back then, he had a very forward-thinking perception of things. Now, the family business that your father started is being run by you, your brother, and your sister. Tell us a little bit about the benefits—hopefully, there are some (haha)—of having three siblings leading a company. I imagine it could be both good and bad, so I'm curious about how things work when the kids take over in family businesses.
Maier: There's no doubt. I think the good thing is we all care about the business since we grew up with it. My brother, more than anyone, got really involved. He had good coordination, got his business degree, and became a lab technician. So, he's a CDT, RDT, and he got involved in the business in the 90s. My sister went on to practice law, and I went into finance and investment banking. In the early 2000s, I was persuaded to join the business, finding it an interesting place to work. I joined in 2004, took over in 2014, and my sister joined not long after that, becoming in-house counsel after practicing law. The good thing is we all have different responsibilities, skills, and talents to bring to the table, and we work well together.
Dr. Ardalan: Right, everybody's got their strengths. There's some overlap, but you're not stepping on each other's toes, saying, "I need you to do it this way" or "You need to do it that way." It's more like, "No, you stay in your lane, I'll stay in mine," and we all come together, maintaining a nice, successful relationship.”
Mark: Yeah, absolutely, yeah. So, it does work well that way.
Dr. Ardalan: Mark, you know, every practice, like I have a private practice, we're always looking for that advantage, some advantage, you know, a way to be able to grow our business. So, what would you define as the Aurum’s advantage?
Mark: I think it's really rooted in my father's view of the world and his approach, believing that you're only going to be good if you stay on top of education. We had to learn internally how to provide the best service to dentists. It also became clear that technology keeps moving, whether that's the technology of how you practice dentistry or actual digital technology. Being at the forefront and staying on top of these advancements means you'll be valued and seen as a resource.
Early on, he understood the need to embrace education, partner with dental societies, collaborate with key opinion leaders and educators, and affiliate with great institutions. We support universities, engage with fourth-year students, and connect with continuing education centers like Pankey, Dawson, Kois, and LVI. By being involved with them, staying on the leading edge, and becoming a trusted partner, we have positioned ourselves as a valuable resource in the field of dentistry.
Dr. Ardalan: It's funny because looking back, that’s exactly where your dad started, right? He always said you have to be on the cutting edge, the leading edge. Many of these industries and schools are teaching that because they’re the ones doing the research and figuring out where things are heading. Partnering with them seems like a brilliant idea.
Mark: Yeah, I think so, and it served us well. Today, we use the term "Super GP," but back then, no one was talking about creating the Super GP. In a boom-and-bust town like Calgary with the oil cycle, I asked him about it, and he said, "Listen, during a bust, half the dentists will just batten down the hatches and hope the storm passes, while others realize they won't survive unless they adapt. They need to figure out how to do some basic ortho or handle more complex procedures."
Today, we recognize these people as Super GPs, but back then, there wasn't a structured program to create them. It just happened that life evolved that way, and we were involved out of necessity.
Dr. Ardalan: I agree with that.
Mark: Another thing is that being a European and with his parents in Europe, my dad loved going back there. Many leading dental companies were in Europe, particularly in ceramics and alloys. Sure, we had Jensen here, but everything else was European, especially German and Swiss. There were big conventions like IDS and local conventions, and many of our suppliers were European, with Ivoclar being a big name among many.
Being able to go to Europe frequently and keep a pulse on what was happening there gave him better information than what he might have had if he were just in North America or Canada.
Dr. Ardalan: Well, that's great because he was able to bring that knowledge back. Now, what's interesting to me is that as I do this podcast, I get the opportunity to talk to a wide range of dentists. With so many different types of dental offices out there, what do you think dental practices are specifically looking for from a lab?
Mark: Historically, I think it's been predictability, right? It's been like, you know, I've got my lab guy or my lab girl. They're reliable, they answer my phone calls, they listen to me, they know what I want. I think traditionally, that was always the baseline. Dentists historically had a lot of choices—generally, you hear different statistics, but they could choose between three to five labs: front of the mouth, back of the mouth, implant, removable, ortho, expensive, or cheap. That hasn't changed, and they're looking for a predictable outcome.
Today, I think predictability is still the baseline, but we're living in very interesting times. It's not just about being a good clinician anymore; it's about defining what kind of clinician you want to be, what kind of patients you're treating, and keeping pace with rapidly evolving technology that's changing what's clinically possible, information systems, and business models.
Consumers are becoming informed patients of dentistry, shopping for their dental care, and navigating a complex landscape. Even if you aren't interested in technology, it's a challenging position to maintain. You have to decide what technology is appropriate for your practice or your practice aspirations and make business decisions accordingly. Today's dental world is dynamic, with the corporatization of dentistry evident in DSOs and large companies with patient-centric marketing and big aligners.
Patients are seeking information and shopping for their dental care, making the landscape more complex to navigate. To be a great clinician today, you need to be visible and ready to answer the big questions when patients come in. Simply wearing a lab coat or a white coat isn't enough–it doesn’t get you across the finish line. Patients may not have all the information, but they're actively looking.
Dr. Ardalan: One thing you mentioned that I'd like to delve into further is the idea of redefining your company beyond just being a lab. It sounds like you're evolving into a dental solutions company. From our conversation, it appears that you're willing to conduct research even if the practitioner isn't fully up-to-date with everything.
Could you talk a bit about the concept of a dental solutions company compared to simply being viewed as a lab when someone considers your services?
Mark: Yeah, I mean, look, having just one hammer and one nail doesn't get you far, unless it's the best hammer and the best nail. Whether we're talking about running a dental clinic or a dental lab, if all you have to offer is price or if you're fortunate to have a great location and flow, that's good. But who's buying your practice? What's your exit plan? What attracts associates? These are important considerations about who you are and where you stand.
Competing solely on price can be limiting and unsustainable over the long term. Adding to the complexity I mentioned earlier, there's another layer where cosmetic dentistry comes into play. While a molar's appearance might not matter much, aesthetics become critical in the front of the mouth, where standards of attractiveness vary. There has been a significant boom in cosmetic dentistry over the last decade, but functional considerations still remain important, albeit among the minority.
Nowadays, there's a trend towards functional aesthetics and a broader wellness culture entering the mainstream. Concepts like TMJ, TMD, airway issues, and occlusion are becoming more widely recognized and discussed among patients. This complexity requires clinics and labs alike to stay relevant both now and in the future.
In the digital age, we're learning that digital tools enable multidisciplinary, interdisciplinary, and comprehensive dentistry. Each patient has unique timelines, budgets, fears, and aspirations. Listening to patients and understanding their clinical journey is crucial. Providing a singular solution isn't always feasible; instead, offering a range of solutions and being responsive to digital information shared by patients and dentists is key.
We aim to collaborate as co-architects with patients and doctors to determine the best solutions, whether it's an all-on-X procedure, a sleep appliance, or any other dental treatment.
Dr. Ardalan: Yeah, it really is like that you're out there trying to empower the dentist and saying like, you can't just compete here, you gotta do it on a bigger scale. So how do you go about empowering excellence in dentistry, especially when there's folks that may not see it the way that you do, or they're new, they're coming out, or they've been in the game too long. So your philosophy is a little different. It's like, no, no, no, all of this is out there.
How do you get it from A to B?
Mark: You know, it's a tough challenge we're really focused on. The past is the past; we've had a long, successful run, and it was great. But the world has changed significantly, especially with COVID-19. We were shut down for three months, uncertain about our return. We decided that if we were to come back, it would be as a different company—one that honors its past but looks boldly toward the future.
In the past, CE was our strength. Now, we're focusing on how to remain relevant in a world where everything seems like an infomercial. Learning has been commoditized, and we need to cut through the noise by emphasizing value over price. So, to answer your question: What's empowering dentistry for us? We realized we must challenge ourselves internally to improve, focusing on both our service and manufacturing paradigms. We're also defining our market—who we aim to serve, understanding we can't please everyone.
We've identified the aspirational dentist as our target customer—a dentist at any stage of their clinical journey, whether just starting out or established as a master in their field. We're adapting quickly to a changing world, staying deeply engaged in education. While we've excelled in advanced education, we're also now focusing on guiding dentists towards foundational knowledge and processes, not just providing but directing them appropriately. Standardizing workflows is currently our main focus, especially in the digital realm, where choosing the right tools and technologies can be complex.
It's not about prescribing one solution over another; it's about finding what's right for each dentist's unique practice needs. By listening closely to our customers, we aim to be a trusted resource and partner. Through building trust and fostering loyalty, we grow together with our clients. Successful partnerships with our top customers have been built on mutual growth and learning experiences—we've become better together.
We're actively refining this approach, though we haven't fully figured it out yet. This direction of continual improvement and customer-focused innovation is where we're headed, and we're finalizing our strategies to support it.
Dr. Ardalan: The first thing is I've never heard the term aspirational dentist. That's fantastic. That is now in my vocabulary because I meet some folks and that's exactly who they are. I'm like, oh wow, you aspire for this and it's nice to have a group or a company that recognizes that, and say, let us join you on your journey. But what I wanted to ask you about is, because you mentioned, as we started to talk about digital, you know, innovation has just become insane in the past several years. So digital technology, you know, it's been talked about in dentistry for a long time, but lately there's this, there's almost this explosion with new products and procedures, and where do you see, because you brought it up, Aurums’ role in this process?
Mark: I'd like to say if we've not been on the bleeding edge every time, you know, arrows in your back, the first new printer comes out sucks, we've been on the cutting edge and we've got a museum of all kinds of failed equipment and stuff, but it's confusing, right? And I think right now anybody that's trying to differentiate their story as far as digital, like, come on, man, it's been happening for a long time. So it's really about what kind of digital and what is the workflow. And the thing we're really present to right now is, okay, digital can make things more predictable. It can make less steps, shorten the cycle, those sort of things. But again, it's not a guarantee, right? So you need to understand what you're doing. And again, there are SOPs and protocols that you need to integrate. So we're really trying to look thematically at what we'll call between us today two visit dentistry and that's very important because you want to make it as simple for the patient and the less visits obviously the more convenient for the patient, the better for the clinic, the better for the lab. So today with all the diagnostic tools out there and some of the emerging ones you have better information capture and so you can do the digital planning and there can be a lot of online type of stuff without needing the patient.
Dr. Ardalan: You talked about like you know a digital answer for one practitioner might be completely different to somebody else the type of scan or how they're doing it how they're looking to grow in the future so it might be like this scan is good for you now but you are that aspirational dentist. Listen, in a year or two this is going to be outdated so we need to guide you along and just let you know the next step so either you can decide if I'm going there start planning for it.
Mark: Precisely. Today, you can get great scanners for 10, 12 grand. They might not be the best for full-arch dentistry, but they're certainly great for quadrant dentistry, right? So, again, what kind of dentistry— you know, what are you using that scanner for? And it's not just about accurate impressions; it's about a communication device, right? So, anything you have where you can demonstrate to the patient what's going on in the mouth—some things you might need to point out, some are just self-evident—they're gonna look at that and go, "Hey, what's going on here?” You know, we're gonna fix that.
Yeah, I didn't know it was that bad. I think it's crucial to help your customers make the right choices if they're asking for your advice. It's nice that a vendor will sell them anything, but consider buying a stereo in the past. You might think, "These are the speakers I want," but after getting them, you realize they're not that great. That's the situation we deal with as a lab. Whatever intraoral scanner the customers are using, the quality of what they send us can vary. Sometimes it's good enough, and sometimes it isn't. Anyone who understands full arch cases knows there's a lot of misinformation out there. When you're trying to do a full arch case, you might realize that you weren't sold what you were really looking for.
Dr. Ardalan: Yeah, Mark, I think when we talk about stereos and speakers, the entire millennial generation might tune out. They're probably thinking, 'What's that? Why would you do that?' You're talking to people with AirPods.
Mark: Yeah, sorry, I made myself feel old there.
Dr. Ardalan: Audience, I'm looking at Mark right now, he is anything but old, and obviously from the conversation, you're constantly cutting edge.
One of the things I didn't know was that Aurum has such a long-standing status as a major provider of orthodontic products in Canada through your company and Ortho Organizers. Does Aurum plan to extend its commitment to orthodontics, especially as the field, particularly in the digital realm, is experiencing unprecedented growth worldwide?
Mark: Big time. We've operated two orthodontic businesses. One focuses on the laboratory side, dealing with removable ortho, splints, bionators, and similar items. We've maintained this aspect. Additionally, we handle distribution in Canada, which began with Ortho Organizers, transitioned through private equity, and has now been with Henry Schein for a while. It's been a fantastic partnership, and they have exciting new developments underway that we're enthusiastic about.
In the U.S., we've enjoyed significant autonomy in deciding our direction. Looking back over the last decade, the impact Invisalign had on the industry is remarkable. They introduced new technology that revolutionized the dental landscape. Brands like Colgate and Crest are household names, not dental products, but Invisalign changed that perception by offering a cosmetic solution that could transform smiles with a credit card charge of four to seven grand. This sparked a cosmetic and dental awareness revolution, which has been beneficial for the industry.
Today, we face dilemmas such as patients requesting no-prep or minimal-prep solutions. While understandable, it's essential to establish a foundation, potentially through orthodontics, to avoid extensive preparatory work. Patients often request procedures without fully comprehending the implications.
Nowadays, the focus is shifting beyond pure cosmetics to include function and wellness. Straightening teeth is just one aspect; stability, occlusion, pain-free function, and overall wellness are increasingly important goals. There's a growing mainstream interest in wellness, marked by trends away from habits like smoking and drinking towards activities like yoga, wearing brands like Lululemon, consuming products like Alpa greens, and following personalities like Joe Rogan, Gary Brecka, and Andrew Huberman. This cultural shift influences how dentistry is perceived and practiced.
As technology advances, understanding new protocols and implementing them in clinical practice becomes crucial. The outcomes we deliver are directly impacted by how well we adapt to these advancements and integrate them into patient care.
Dr. Ardalan: Well, as you mentioned, it's becoming more accessible not just for patients but also for practitioners. It's not just orthodontists who have the ability to practice orthodontics now. Even general dentists, while they may not handle full cases, might want to incorporate Invisalign or another clear aligner system to create space or shape the arch for their restorative dentistry needs. This approach can lead to minimal preparation techniques. It's invaluable to have a company like yours that can provide guidance in this area. You can educate and support practitioners, helping them stay on the cutting edge of these advancements.
Mark: Yeah, absolutely. I may have veered a bit from directly answering your question, but that's the crux of it. In today's digital environment, we can begin treatment planning with multiple solutions. It used to be just brackets and wires, right? Then aligners became prominent, and certain appliances joined the options available. Now, we can combine these methods because nobody wants prolonged orthodontic treatment. We face compliance issues and considerations of functionality, aesthetics, and arch form. Do we need orthognathic surgery? Today, we have better data to make informed decisions about the most suitable treatment plan and how to stage it using different modalities. For instance, starting with brackets for six months, followed by aligners and perhaps a motion appliance or a Class II correction device. There are various approaches, but the key is that we can visualize these digitally, discuss them, and communicate effectively with clinicians. We collaborate to determine the best course of action. Clinicians can then convey this to patients more clearly, explaining the recommended approach and the expected outcomes. Ultimately, this approach allows for more predictable results in less time, requiring fewer aligners and reducing treatment duration.
Dr. Ardalan: I think this all comes full circle to what you mentioned at the beginning about education. There might be a clinician who says, "I really want to do that, but I don't know how," and it seems like Aurum is committed to education. Could you tell us about your dedication to educating practitioners?
Mark: Yeah, I mean, we've always strived to stay current. Like anything, you learn and then you settle into routines, perhaps taking shortcuts or whatnot. So, we make a concerted effort to stay on top of developments because whatever you learn tends to diffuse over time. Internally, we're constantly evolving—not static. People come and go, so it's like being on a treadmill, trying to stay ahead and continually improve. If we can maintain that internally, it gives us confidence that we're investing in staying at the forefront. Externally, even if we've figured things out internally, if nobody knows about it or how to apply it, we haven't really progressed.
Yeah, it's a bit like the chicken and egg situation. Are we seeing a new development and thinking, 'Wow, we should head in that direction,' or are we seeing it and then figuring out how to get involved? It's probably both. What we do know is that staying connected with educators is crucial. While we may not provide the basic CE and foundational education, we can certainly guide people to the right places. Our focus is on applied science—we take the theories, principles, and intellectual foundations and translate them into real-world outcomes. Despite the noise surrounding technology and techniques, it becomes simpler with proper training. There's the education aspect of being informed and understanding, and then there's the training—learning how to apply these concepts. We're currently formalizing this process, which we've been involved in for a long time, now under the Aurum Academy umbrella. We're excited about our collaboration with Drs. Nathan Jeal and BT Nguyen.
Dr. Ardalan: They're brilliant.
Mark: They're awesome—experienced yet young enough to appeal to those who think, "Hey, you guys are young and really making this happen." They share some amazing information, particularly on their social media.
Dr. Ardalan: Yeah, during my podcast conversation with them, I took a ton of notes.
One thing that stood out to me is how you're really committed to redefining your business to the next level. What are your expectations for the Aurum Group over the next few years? Is it focused more on education, or is it leaning towards the digital side? I'm fascinated by the transformation you've undergone in recent years—moving things around. Where do you see yourselves heading?
Mark: It's a hard question to answer, but I think it's going to be a combination of several factors. Firstly, we need to establish ourselves as authorities and maintain that authority in our field. We operate in an advanced industry where knowing the possibilities and associating with those advancing standards is crucial.
Secondly, staying at the leading edge of technology is essential. However, technology moves so fast today that we often find ourselves on the bleeding edge—dealing with initial glitches like those in gen one products, such as cars not starting or radios malfunctioning.
Lastly, tying everything together from a business perspective is key. We're all in business, so understanding our market, managing expenses, and assessing ROI are critical. This is what we're addressing under the Aurum Academy umbrella—translating knowledge into practical applications for practices to thrive.
Today's buzzwords like AI and 3D printing will undoubtedly continue to evolve. Whether they displace the status quo or become the new standard remains to be seen, but one trend is clear: more procedures will likely be done chairside. We support this trend because it makes sense efficiency-wise. For advanced orthodontics, our goal is to be involved in comprehensive orthodontic planning.
Your time as a practitioner is better spent chairside rather than as a software planner. Let us handle that aspect, whether it's planning orthodontic treatments or creating chairside items like aligners, temporary prosthetics, dentures, or implant guides. We aim to position ourselves as reliable partners and authorities in knowledge and service. As for manufacturing standards, we're committed to maintaining the highest benchmarks, recognizing that these standards are constantly evolving.
Dr. Ardalan: It's all about the workflow—it's constantly changing along with the evolving nature of the profession.
Mark: Absolutely, milling has been around for 100 years. It's precise and reliable, but not much has changed there. 3D printing, on the other hand, is a moving target. It's not just the printer technology that evolves, but also the materials available, precision required, repeatability, and throughput. It's all progressing positively, but there are nuances that can either be game changers or game breakers.
Dr. Ardalan: It goes back to what you want to do. If you say, "In my practice or with my hands, I don't want to do this," there's a solution for that. If you do want to, we have a different solution for you.
Mark, before we wrap up today, our listeners won't see this, but as we're here talking, I can't help but notice over your shoulder what looks like a giant fish. I've heard stories about your incredible passion for fishing, which takes you all over the world.
So my question is, how does that passion for adventure and the journey resonate in your approach to running a business? It's interesting how it parallels your father's beginnings.
Mark: Ooh, wow. I know there's probably a really good answer for that one.
For me, connecting with nature and disconnecting from the day-to-day helps me stay grounded and re-energized. Whether I'm fishing locally or abroad, I completely disconnect—I'm offline. It's about the location and the people I'm with, even if it's just me. It gives me the time to recharge, reflect, and come back with renewed energy and excitement. Ultimately, it makes me more effective and valuable to everyone around me.
Dr. Ardalan: That's so crucial. It's the same advice I give to younger doctors. Whatever your thing is—whether it's for physical health, mental health, or anything else—our profession can be very demanding. Sometimes it's necessary to disconnect from technology, work, or other stressors, take time to regroup, and then come back refreshed. Alongside all the digital advancements, this advice is invaluable for anyone to consider.
Mark: Yeah, I think everybody needs to find something they enjoy and make time for it, rather than getting caught up in the "I gotta" mentality because those obligations will always be there. If you can pause and reflect on things, you're taking care of yourself. If you can't look after yourself, it becomes very hard over time to look after anyone else. We all understand the pressures of family and other commitments.
Dr. Ardalan: It really seems like the Aurum Group is setting the standard moving forward. I've done a lot of reading, and you have your hands in so many different areas, all of which are moving towards excellence—the Aurum advantage. If our listeners want more information about the group or the services you provide, what is the best way for them to find out how to work with you?
Mark: All our contact information is on AurumGroup.com, where you can find multiple ways to connect with us. We're also on Instagram as @AurumGroup and @AurumAesthetic. I'm not that social media savvy, but we're on LinkedIn too. So, there are many ways to find out more about us.
Dr. Ardalan: I love it. Well, listen, next time if I get the chance to sit with you in person over a Canadian beer or something like that, I want to hear some of your fish stories. Being in Florida, I don't fish, but I always hear these stories, so I'm curious to see how yours compare. But all that aside, I'm incredibly appreciative of having you on the podcast. I know our listeners are grateful for everything you and the Aurum Group are doing. On behalf of our dental site podcast, we just want to thank you for being with us today.
